Live testing of a kitchen for Radon before Granite is install

[realgranitetops]

Jo..what was the top originally ..?


Was DA BOSS on the phone to AL..? asking him to come and do his tests..lmao as he has been very very quiet lately has he not..? wasn't he telling us ARMEGEDON was nigh..and wait for HIS press release !!

HIS big story that was about to unfold..LMAO

Here is the story..AL is a fraud !!! scare-monger !!! a BUNNY for MONEY !!!

[Huligar]

If you all are looking for AL, he is now running around the net telling people that this test was not done correctly and the results are not real. It is one thing not to believe your own eyes but what I do not understand is why he go every where else but the source? I now feel that Al is all about making a sale, it takes a few days if not weeks before his comments make it on my radar so he gets to scare the public for a few more days, unlike this forum where the second he or I make a post we get and email telling us that some one just post on this topic.

Al, If you think the test was wrong are done too fast speak up. You asked us to do the test over in # weeks simply because you did not understand a paper.

[hoboal]

Why doesn't this news surprises me ?

[Huligar]

Hi Hoboal,

We will push on with the testing, but it is just a shame that Al feels he need to play these games.
1: Tell everyone that granite can kill you with out falling on you
2: You should rip out your granite and install the man-made stuff
3: He was going to come to NY to find a hot slab but he backed out after we found a ticket and hotel and got a few slab shops to say we were welcome to test the granite
4: never gave the information for his supplier that he turned away over 10K of "hot" slabs.
5: never gave the names of the labs that he sent samples to

This list of disapointments can go on for ever so I can see why you are not surprise.

[Huligar]

At 4pm we removed the second set of test kits from Air Chek.
Fedex should be here any second to pick up the kits in order to get them back to air chck tomorrow. We should have the results by monday. The two other kits will remain for a few more days. Thank god I do not cook.

[Al Gerhart]

Replies in line in color text.

Originally Posted by Huligar

Thanks for waiting. I just got back from Vegas where the people who come up with programs to deal with Radon and Radiation were having a conference and one of the topics was building materials.

I personally spoke to Stanley P. Liebert of CMT Laboratories who denied any direct or indirect correspondence with our Al or the SSA. Wrong, Stan said he denied any business relationship between us and that you were amazed that he wasn't working for a plastic company. The granite sample Stan had in the NY Times story and the CBS Morning Show was my sample, and I had been emailing and talking to Stan on the phone long before that. Really, Huligar, why lie about something that is so easily proven?
Mr. Liebert went on to say that the only thing that he is hoping to point out is the fact that 10 out of the 2000 granites emit some radiation. Wrong, Stan just bought about $20,000 worth of radiation measurement equipment and is setting up a nationwide chain of experts to keep the meters busy. All of have said from the begining that there was a small percentage of granites with elevated levels, drop that ridiculous claim that anyone has said all granite was bad. The fact is that no one knows which granites out of the 2,000 are a problem, but if we did, all granite would still have to be checked because it is so random. No one will ever be able to prove that all slabs of a particular color are 100% low Radon.
This however, does not directly translate to what we have been reading on the web. That is, if you have a slab that has some traces of radiation it will give off radon with in the next ten generations. Mr. Liebert is also the proud owner of granite as well. He thinks it’s crazy for someone to remove a counter top simply because of one area that may show a reading. I would as well, and your point is?

I also had the pleasure of speaking with Erik Listou of Build Responsible, Gary Hodgden of AAIR Professionals, Bill Brodhead of WPB Enterprises Inc, and Shawn Price of Air Chek, Inc. These guys gave me a crash course in radiation and radon while confirming that we had the hottest stone measured to date. Your stone is hot, matches the one we found in Tacoma Washington back in March. What you didn't do was see if it produced large amounts of Radon. You guys don't get it, the problems are connected at some points, but high radiation don't mean high Radon all the time. It depends on the radio nucliedes in the granite. What you guys have is an excellent test bed for elevated radiation dose from a granite countertop, but it is a poor Radon test.
Everyone that I spoke to all had the same conclusion. At this time the radiation from natural stone has no significant bearing on the radon levels in a home. B*** S***, Huligar. Bill Brodhead of WPB presented two papers on his research of granite countertops and Radon. One was included in the concrete study, the other was posted across the room from the Air Chek booth. Page after page of data and proof. An example of a home that had 3 pCi/L of Radon from the granite countertop WITH ventilation present.
Dr. Kitto gave a presentation showing his methods of measuring Radon from granite countertops, with two examples of very elevated levels of Radon from the granite countertops in his study, 24 pCi/L in one case. He said ventilation would cut that level in half, or 12 pCi/L of Radon, three times the EPA action level.

Dr. Steck was on the granite/Radon discussion board and concured with Brodhead and Dr. Kitto that granite could exhale enough Radon to raise home levels to significant levels.

There was another session on granite countertops and Radon, with a start on maximum allowable Radon in granite countertops and the start of a protocol for measuring the Radon from granite. Even the MIA agreed there was a problem and they agreed to stop using the lying PR tactics they are well known for.


It was also explained and demonstrated that the meters on the market are not the best tools to go hunting for radon coming from natural stone. The areas of a slab can be easily avoided or even removed if deemed necessary. All of this has been known, but till recently you have been saying there were not hot slabs or Radon coming from the stone. This is news to you and few others. Now you are advocating what I have been saying all along, test the da** stone before you buy it.
In the NSRA test kitchen, the numbers before the installation were all very low. All were less than 0.3 pCi/l on the days of testing (about as low as anyone can measure.)

The test kit in the hall was 0.6 pCi/l
The test kit hanging in the door way was 0.8
The test kit hanging from the cabinets was 0.7
And the one we hung 12" over the "hottest" spot was 1.0 pCi/l

And you think that 1 pCi/L of Radon has zero risk? Look up the average Radon in American homes according to the EPA, it is 1.3 pCi/L. Now look up the estimated number of Radon lung cancer deaths caused by that 1.3 pCi/L, 21,000 deaths per year. Do the math, 15,960 deaths per year if the average Radon level in American homes were at the same level as your Niagara Gold countertop.

That doesn't mean there will be 15,960 deaths, that means that statistically if every one had one of these tops there would be that many deaths. Again do the math, one chance in 18,750 people exposed per year. Assume that the top is kept for 50 years in that home, and you have 1 in 375 that the granite countertop will kill you.

Now, the Czech experts on radiation in building material said that the risk from Radon was about the same as the risk from the radiation from the building material, so double that risk to 1 in 9,375 or a lifetime risk of 1 in 187 of dying of Radon induced lung cancer.

Brodhead said that 4 pCi/L of Radon gave 600 mR of radiation per year, so your 1 pCi/L of Radon from your granite countertop gives you 150 mR per year, 50% over recomended maximum radiation dose per year.

This test was done in a way to make sure we got the highest readings possible. We now intend on testing the home as if we were simply testing for radon in the home.


Sponsors

And finally, here is an email I sent to Stan asking if he would take a look at your test.

From: al gerhart [mailto: carpentershop@yahoo.com ]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 11:01 PM
To: Stanley Liebert
Subject: RE: AARST convention at Las Vegas



Hi Stan,

I misplaced my phone today, didn't take it on my trip, so I didn't get a chance to call. I'll call you tomorrow.

There is a guy in the Bronx , fourth floor apartment, installed a medium hot granite (supposedly around 4,400 cpm) in his kitchen and is running a Radon test. The guy runs a stone repair website, seems pretty ignorant and gets confused easily, but I am undecided if he is honest or not. He has been all over the Internet attacking the testing effort, and me of course.

Brodhead said that Air Chek said the Radon test kits are reading low, Brodhead asked me if they guy was the kind that would cheat on the test. Maybe, maybe not. He has no problem stretching the truth on other matters.

One thing, they installed the granite in the kitchen, then ran the test for what looks like 36 hours. The home didn't have a chance to reach equilibrium, so I can see why the test kits are reading low. It is supposedly a Niagara Gold slab with six hot spots.

This guy, Huligar, says he would welcome someone measuring the radiation or running their own Radon test on the kitchen. Are you interested in looking into this after the AARST convention is over? I can set it up if you have someone to send.

I'll call tomorrow. See you at AARST,

Al

And Stan's reply proving that we know each other.

Al,



The Bronx is with in my reach as long as he paying for the services I can do it the 18th .



See you in Las Vegas .



Stan

In addition, I have emailed more of Stan's emails to Kowboy and will send a copy to one of your other members as well to prove that you have told one whopper of a lie.

Why would you tell such a lie, Huligar? Why would you lie about the Radon/granite levels found by Brodhead, Dr. Kitto, and Dr. Steck and the others? Dr. Kitto's posted study is not exactly what he gave, it is the study that was ready for peer review a few months ago BEFORE we sent him some seriously hot granite samples. The MIA is trying to get their hands on his newer work and he didn't want to post it till he finishes the study and adds the hotter granite sample results. But the study that is posted shows from 1 to 4 pCi/L of Radon possible from some of the granites in his previous work.

The papers are posted here if anyone doubts me.

[Al Gerhart]

Hoboal,

Despite your attitude the last few weeks, I believe you can be trusted not to reveal Stan's email address to someone like Huligar. I would like for YOU to send Stan an email and ask about two things, how long have he and I been sharing info and if Huligar told the truth about the sessions and papers delivered at the AARST convention.

Promise me you won't give out the email address to Huligar or anyone else that will harrass the guy and I will send you the address.

I'll give you Bill Brodhead's email as well. I do believe you will be a man of your word.

One thing I can't stand is a liar.

[Al Gerhart]

Originally Posted by Huligar

Hi Hoboal,

We will push on with the testing, but it is just a shame that Al feels he need to play these games.
1: Tell everyone that granite can kill you with out falling on you
2: You should rip out your granite and install the man-made stuff
3: He was going to come to NY to find a hot slab but he backed out after we found a ticket and hotel and got a few slab shops to say we were welcome to test the granite
4: never gave the information for his supplier that he turned away over 10K of "hot" slabs.
5: never gave the names of the labs that he sent samples to

This list of disapointments can go on for ever so I can see why you are not surprise.

Huligar, agian with all the lies. Don't you worry about what the others will think of you? Read the papers on this subject in the link to the AARST proceddings I provided.

And I told you I would provide proof of hot slabs delivered on your doorstep. That happened. A few days later, you got to watch it on TV.

You poor man, you don't understand half of what you read yet you think you are intelligent enough to have an opinion on such a complicated issue. Never once have I ever said that we turned away $10,000 worth of hot slabs from anyone. What I wrote was that we lost a $10,000 job over our testing requirements, the stone was too hot to expose our workers to and we passed on the job when they wouldn't budge on the stone choice.

Hulligar, the reason I don't reveal the people on my team is that you would harrass them. Besides, I have already said over and over who the samples were provided to. If you were civil, you would either not understand what they told you or you would outright lie about what they told you. Understand that I am being very civil by giving you an out with not understanding what you are told. Were it anyone else and I would refuse to believe that someone could be that dense. In your case, I am truly perplexed why you do what you do.

Had you been upfront and honest, I would have helped you. As it is, no one in their right mind will come within a thousand yards of you.

[Huligar]

Al, even when you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar you still want to come back and push your lies. You have not learn not to call me a liar as of yet.

As I have done in the past, I will give you time to read what you wrote and make what ever changes you want.

[Al Gerhart]

Huligar,
you claim I am lying about something but provide no truth.

I say you are lying about two things, that I don't know Stan Liebert and that the Radon conference said that Radon was not an issue. Specifically, you claimed that Brodhead said there were no concerns with Radon from granite. I provided links to his study and you still continue to lie about it. Here it is again.

Brodhead's study says granite poses a Radon hazard.

And you saw the booth with Brodheads graphs, data, and calculations posted where he found 3 pCi/L of Radon from the Four Seasons (FS in the study) granite.


Here is Dr. Kitto's older paper, not exactly what he gave because all the new info wasn't in this paper, but he covered the measurement methods and reported that some granites can raise a homes Radon level more than 4 pCi/L
Kitto says Radon can come from granite in serious amounts

Dude, you are busted. You got caught lying about two major things and everyone knows it now.

How can anyone ever trust you again?