Live testing of a kitchen for Radon before Granite is install

[Al Gerhart]

Huligar,
I am going to take you up on that offer to have one of our experts come by and do some testing. This coming Sunday is the first day of the AARST convention, so everyone that is anyone in the Radon industry will be going, not enough time to come see you, get ready for a trip to Vegas, and run a business. After the convention, I bet I can get someone by to see what you have.

Incidently, I spoke with a guy tonight about your test results. They are going to be low. They will be low and this is why, Radon takes about three weeks to reach equilibrium, or maximum strength. The first few days the Radon will spread out quickly, raising the entire room level slowly. Re run this test in two more weeks, and you will have a decent test.

If you had a meter under a cover, that one might put off some elevated Radon. One thing though that was discovered a few months back by some of our Radon experts, the polished side of granite gives off very little, the back side gives off a lot. One test with Four Seasons granite had only 14 pCi/sf/hr off the polished face, but the backside gave off almost 500 pCi/Sf/Hr of Radon. The guys at Air Chek (yes I know them and they have one of my samples, a reddish Niagra Gold) don't know about this difference yet. I plan on talking to them at the AARST convention about this and other issues.

If you can send me some 12" x 12" samples, or have them available for pickup when I get one of our guys by to see your granite top, I'll get them to the scientists. Keep in mind that they already have Niagra Gold samples, but no doubt they will run tests on your samples as well. I'll share the results with you when they are done.

[Huligar]

Al, who are the scientists?
Is it this weekend for the AARST convention? I may just see you if i can get a press pass in time.

Now all I have the case where the claim is, do to the fact that the back is has open pores more radon escapes. Have you notice that the slab in question comes with mess and resin? when you try to test threw the resin of the same slab in the same area of the hot spots you do not get a reading.

now lets get back to the polish surface of the stone, are you saying the higher the polish the less radon it release? I am not trying to put words in your mouth, that is why I asking this question.

This person that you spoke to that claims that the readings will be low, can you give us a name? can you ask them to come to this post so that I and others can ask a few questions.

So according to you, we need about 3 weeks before we can get high readings. would you like for me to seal off the apartment for 3 weeks? I do have somewhere else for my family and my self to stay for 3 weeks.

Al, is there any thing else you would like?

[Al Gerhart]

Originally Posted by Huligar

Al, who are the scientists?
Is it this weekend for the AARST convention? I may just see you if i can get a press pass in time.

Good luck, unless you have press credentials most conventions won't honor a pass. Fabnet tried to get me one once, so I could take some pictures, and the pass was refused. The conference costs like $450 or so, quite a hit for the one day that I will be there.

Now all I have the case where the claim is, do to the fact that the back is has open pores more radon escapes. Have you notice that the slab in question comes with mess and resin? when you try to test threw the resin of the same slab in the same area of the hot spots you do not get a reading.

No one knows why the back emits more, but two Radon labs have reported it as a fact.

That is a surprise if your slab had resin and mesh on the back, every African Range Collection we have run acros was not resined. The resin and mesh should lock most of the Radon in place and allow it to decay inside the stone.

Are you saying that when you used the blue radiation meter on the heavily resined spots, you couldn't get a reading? If that is the case, the radiation would have to be pure Alpha which is very, very, rare. Even Potassium based radiation will have 11% Gamma along with the 89% Alpha.

now lets get back to the polish surface of the stone, are you saying the higher the polish the less radon it release? I am not trying to put words in your mouth, that is why I asking this question.

No one really knows. Only two Radon labs have tested a few samples, and only polished, not flamed or honed. I can tell you that Radiation doesn't vary from polished to backside rough. Sometimes a hot spot will be closer to the backside than front side and the back will be hotter.

This person that you spoke to that claims that the readings will be low, can you give us a name? can you ask them to come to this post so that I and others can ask a few questions.

Sorry Huligar, I have seen how you guys act. I wouldn't recomend anyone come to your forum. You will get your test results soon.

So according to you, we need about 3 weeks before we can get high readings. would you like for me to seal off the apartment for 3 weeks? I do have somewhere else for my family and my self to stay for 3 weeks.

No need to do that. Just run the tests again after the Radon has had a chance to max out. Or Air Chek can run some calculations for you based on the result of the covered test kit result. They will need to know the square footage of the kitchen if it was sealed off, or the entire home's area in square feet, and the size of the countertop.

Al, is there any thing else you would like?

By the way, in a few weeks you New York granite guys will have a big surprise coming from up state. Were I living in New York state, I would get set up to test granite countertops. The Radon guys are most likely certified, but sometimes the states don't certify radiation checks unless they are for nuke plants, X ray, or Cat scan type machines. Regardless, as long as one didn't hold themselves out as an expert, a crude survey might be allowed under existing state laws.

[Huligar]

ok Al, I see you jump over a question that is very important.
Who are the 3 scientists?

[Topshop]

To me it makes sense for the stone to be in for a few weeks and reach an equalibrium, but I would not close off the apartment for that time - I would just go about normal business as you are looking for usual results of a typical home with typical use. I am also sure that tests should be taken over several times of the year, seasons, and weather conditions as well as berometric pressures. I am sure many homes radon levels change when the berometric pressures change with the weather on a daily basis.

[Huligar]

Topshop this was one of the first questions that I did ask, but the guys in the lab said that doing the test right away would give the same results, made no sense to me, but we did it any way knowing that this was only going to be the first test of many to come. We do plan on testing this home long term and seen that we know others would want to run test of there own, we just got the ball rolling and provided them with a platform for the test. I do not see this as the last test, and this also why Al did not get any resistance from me what so ever.

[MikeBeckmann]

The statement that the amount of radiation is reduced significantly by polishing is interesting to me , if true (let's remember that it's only been reported twice--it may not actually be true). If true--is it because the pores are "closed", as Jo states? With all due respect, Jo, I don't think so. A gas particle is SO tiny that it doesn't care if the pores are "closed"--what appears to us as a shiny, uniform surface is still incredibly porous (to gases) on a microscopic scale, and I don't think that would explain why the radiation is lower on the polished side. So how to explain this? I don't know--was the slab resined? Sealed? Perhaps the application of a resin and/or sealer DOES impede the radon gas...?
OK, enough of that... On another topic--I think Topshop is absolutely correct in stating that the room shouldn't be sealed. If you're trying to duplicate "real life" conditions--USE the kitchen! Cook, clean, dust, move around the kitchen, use the stove ventilation fan, open and close doors and windows, even open and close the refrigerator door. All of these things will impact the radon (if any), helping to move it around, disperse it, and re-distribute it. And let's not forget the effect of weather, especially seasons--let's face it, the typical homeowner does one of three things---in the winter, the heat is on; in the summer, it's the AC; and if you don't need either of those you probably open the windows. Any and all of these either disperse the air and/or bring fresh air into the room. For goodness sake--who lives in a sealed kitchen?!
Personally, I believe all this "radon in granite" is complete "bunk science", akin to those idiots who think the particle collider in Switzerland is going to cause Armageddon, or that we are responsible for global warming. But it's still an interesting experiment, and I look forward to watching your kitchen begin to glow in the next few weeks!!
Mike Beckmann
Bonstone Materials Corp
Adhesives - Epoxy Adhesives - Bonstone

	Polishing Polishing: This is the final stage, which leaves the surface with reflective characteristics.

	sealer Impregnation: This is commonly known as sealers. This is the first stage in preserving and maintaining your investment. This stage should occur ever six to eight months. There are three types of impregnation (solvent, water, silicone based), regardless to brand. This will stop most water base stains from occurring. It also will stop the stone from been damage beyond repair.

[Topshop]

I would think that the polished side would effect the radon but not the radiation levels. I wonder if there would be a difference for honed and antiqued stones. If that is the case in reality - some sealers would slow radon too.

[tim scarlata]

hmmmm maybe, I don't know anything about it but my thinking would be, if its a gas it would find a way out, unless you can stop the decay of what is causing the gas.
But I have a feeling the NSRA will find out

[rockwell]

All this Radon talk is just like George W. Bush saying, "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction."