Ogee edge on Verde Butterfly is hazy and flat

[Anonymous]

My granite was installed August 8, 2005. The edge always looked bad. But was told that I should use marble wax and 00 steel wool to polish it. I wasn't happy about it, but I let it go because my father became gravely ill shortly following the installation. He died on December 8th.
A few weeks ago, I contacted by phone my fabricator and explained that friends( who were in for my Dad's funeral and own a marble and granite place in Naples, FL) came and saw my granite. They were unimpressed to say the least with the shape and the polish on the edge. They said I should never have to wax the edge to shine it. They suggested to me to have the edge re polished onsite.

So, I got nowhere on the phone with them. They offered their condolences and said "bye Bye". I let some days go by, and then I visited them with my husband and son in person. It was then that things got rather ugly. The owner said "She was done with me". I got upset and started to cry and then she scolded me for crying. (among other things)

Now our husbands got into the mix and tried to be the voices of reason. He finally agreed to send someone out to see the edge. The guy came and tried to wet polish the edge using a pad that said "3000". It didn't work. So he said that he would be back with a black pad that was "5000" and someone from the shop would come and try to fix it because they had more experience. This guy was very nice to me and agreed that the edge looked bad and should be fixed.

Never heard from them... So I called Jo Huligar. Jo came the next day and agreed that the edge looked bad, also. Jo felt that the bit used to shape the edge burnt the stone which caused the crystals to reflect light differently than the top. He called my fabricator to find out if they planned on still getting involved with my stone and explained his position to them.
They told Jo that they would be helping me. So now it's been almost another week since I last saw Jo and my fabricator still hasn't gotten back to me. Not really that surprised.

I'm posting this on the forum to get as much advice as possible. Jo has been amazingly sweet about everything and now I just want as many opinions as I can get.

I'd like to know what my options are.. because They are not going to be very helpful. And of course, they have been paid in full.

I am posting a photo of the edge in question and look forward to your responses. Thank you all for your help
Lisa

http://photobucket.com/albums/a118/m...t=100_0364.jpg

	Marble MARBLE: CHARACTERISTICS This standard includes general information on the characteristics and common uses of marble and identifies typical problems associated with the material. INTRODUCTION Marble is an extremely hard, metamorphic stone composed of calcite (CaCO3). It is formed as a result of the recrystallization of limestone under the intense pressure and heat of geologic processes. The effect of this process is the creation of a stone with a very tight crystalline structure and small but definite porosity. Because of its structure, marble can take a very high polish and is a very popular decorative stone for architectural and sculptural uses. The limited porosity of marble, especially polished marble, makes it less vulnerable to the leaching effects of water. Calcium carbonate, however, of which marble is composed, is highly susceptible to attack by acidic agents. Marble is readily dissolved by acids, even very dilute acids, however the actual results of acidic exposure will vary with the nature of the acid. Chlorides, nitrates, sulfates and other chemical compounds react differently with marble and produce various by-products, which have a wide range of solubility and impact on the durability of marble. For this reason, it is always important to determine the exact type of pollutants causing marble deterioration. Marble itself can be of two types, one composed of calcite and the other of dolomite. Dolomitic marble is much more resistant to acid attack than calcite marble. The color of marble ranges from the brilliant white of calcite to black, including blue-gray, red, yellow and green, depending upon the mineral composition. TYPICAL USES Marble has many decorative and structural uses. It is used for outdoor sculpture as well as for sculpture bases; in architecture it is used in exterior walls and veneers, flooring, decorative features, stairways and walkways. The way in which the stone is used may be a factor in limiting or controlling the severity of exposure. The use or function of the marble may also affect the feasibility of applying certain treatments, but type of use is not the primary factor in the major types of deterioration and damage to which marble is susceptible.

On the day saw Lisa I did a little interview.

Click on the image below


have any of you ever over polish the stone and cause the area to become brittle?

[JeffC]

i have popped "crystalized" an edge on abs before. In my oppinion the ogee is not the correct shape. it should be routered in place with the correct bit. this is not an easy process but can be done. you have to tarp and waterproof everything. i would even consider cutting the sheetrock out where the stone touches the wall so that you can fabricate it all the way to the wall. yes this is extreme, but the sheetrock repair is cheaper then new stone. this is assuming that the original company does the edge for free(or you can backcharge them for someone elses labor). Even if you have to pay for it, it would be cheaper then replacing. and the router and new edge would deffinatly get you passed any burnt spots.

my .02

Jeff

[David Edwards]

Lisa, first, I'm sorry to hear of your loss.

Lisa's granite is in good hands now and I know she'll be taken care of. I think it's great that she was able to get good advice and insight from guys here as well as stoneadvice.com.

To me, her interview expresses a huge shortcoming in the natural stone industry. Alot of people have great experiences with their fabricators and stone care pros, but just as many (it seems) have a negative experience. We certainly aren't creating job security if our customers who love natural stone won't recommend it to their friends and family strictly based on poor service.

Is there anything that can be done about that? Any thoughts?

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the responses.

For what Jeff said-- if this edge could be routed properly, I would be thrilled. As far as the sheetrock repair, that would be doable on the peninsula. But what about my tile backsplash? Ruined?

To David- in my video interview, I expressed my concerns about the natural stone industry. I have a little more to add on the subject.

For instance, My ogee edge looks very differently from all the other ogee edges I had seen in the past. For that reason, I didn't even ask my fabricators for an example because I was under the false impression that there was a STANDARD in the industry that dictated how deep an ogee edge is supposed to be. I was wrong. Not good. There should be a standard.

Also, there is tons of info out there. Also misinformation. Do you seal the stone or not? Some say yes, some say depends on the stone. How do you clean the stone? Again, some say a special spray, some say soap and water. What about radon? True or False? What about fissures and cracks? Resined slabs? Good or Bad? Maintenence issues are such a nightmare. That alone makes ES sound better and better to the average homeowner.

But let's talk about my favorite subject in the natural stone world....
Everyone has a different name for the same stone. Why? So we can't comparison shop. It's soooooooo annoying. Verde Butterfly or Paveo?
Sapphire Jolie or Sapphire Brown or Sapphire Blue? Antique Brown or MArrom Castor? Golden Beach or Juperana Persia? I could go on and on but I think you get my point. SOme of the more familiar stones are easy to identify once you have been shopping for a while, but again very confusing. As far as the ES products. They all have just one name for their specific color. Very easy.

Right now ES just can't compare, IMHO, to the beauty of granite and other natural stones. It's kinda like comparing a diamond to a CZ.
But, in this technological world we live in, I am sure ES will eventually evolve into a more beautiful, natural looking product.

When that happens, look out.

My advice to those of you in the industry is to strive for quality in everything you do and excellent customer service. Your customers are your reputation. Poor workmanship and poor customer service will eventually hurt your profits. Set up industry standards, so we morons can shop confidently. And the PR-- explain how to care for granite in an easy, concise manner. Address the myths about natural stone, and know your facts when customers ask questions. And , of course, one name for every stone.

I will acknowledge that some people have great experiences with their granite counters. Unfortunately, because I didn't, I have a hard time recommending a product that has been disappointing to ME.

Now I will step down off my soap box and finish watching the end of AMerican Idol.

Thanks for all your help.
Jo, I will be in touch. I have a funny feeling we will be seeing each other soon.
Lisa

[JeffC]

Lisa,
the only tile that would have to come off is any next to the edge detail. It would have to be stuck back on and re-grouted(not that hard)....it can be done, just very time consuming.

Verde Butterfly is a must to have in a restorers collection of stone.

I suggest that everyone procure a sink cut out and practice well before a field repair.

Michael of Stonehenge

[Anonymous]

Well, my fabricators came this morning and tried again in vain to polish the edge. This time they say they started at 1000grit and worked their way up. Then they WAXED the edge and presented it to me. I then, wiped off the wax with a wet rag and, guess what, the edge looked exactly the same as before. I told them I wasn't happy, but I restrained myself from crying and having a total hissy fit. I thanked them for at least trying, but felt that they should be doing more to help me. Either by replacing the counter or refunding my money. Somehow, I do not think either of my suggestions is going to fly with the owners. We'll see.

They totally laughed and brushed off Jo's comments regarding the condition of the edge and how to fix it. They questioned his credentials and said that I have to wax the stone to get the shine I want. I explained to them about how I have gotten the same advice from several different people and that the edge can and should be polished as much as the top.
But.. apparently they know better.

Can you all recommend a good fabricator on Long Island. Nasau or Suffolk county--I would be willing to travel. I thought I could trust my instincts about picking a fabricator, but I was totally wrong. If I have to have the counters replaced one day, I want to know where to go.

[Mark Gamble]

Sorry about your situation. I worked for a guy like the company you are dealing with. The only answer I could give to a client was "That is the best I can do with the training supplied". It comes down to $ for these guys. My old employer couldn't even do the work himself, let alone train a polisher. I did my parents kitchen before I learned to polish properly. I have since repolished the edges. At least the haze is gone. I had to go down to a 50 to get rid of the haze.