Bad granite job in N. Va.?

JC in No Va · 06-12-2008, 04:29 AM

Hello:

I live in Falls Church, and we're in the 13th month of a 12-month home renovation. We just had granite counters installed last week. Until the granite went in, the renovation had gone smoothly. The problem with the job is two-fold. First, there are several seams that we don't think should be there. First, the kitchen has a peninsula about 8-9 feet long. Instead of making the peninsula one contiguous piece, the sub cut it in two, leaving a big seam right in the middle of things. Second, there is a recessed window behind the sink. Rather than cutting one piece, the sub made one cut for the sink and then installed a rectangular piece about 2' x 8" behind the sink. With the light from the outside, the seam and the slightly uneven extra piece show up quite glaringly.

The second problem is that the cuts are rough, the seams are visible, the joint material is not properly matched and there are high spots on the peninsula seam.

We spoke with the sub yesterday, who initially said a) the peninsula was cut in two pieces because the piece might break during transportation and b) there was not enough material for one single piece because they used 2 slabs (and I think this really was a 3-slab job). When I asked him which was it: a) or b) he told me it was a question of what he could cut out of the slab. Then it emerged he had mis-measured the peninsula piece, which forced him to buy a third slab after all. . . .

The sub maintains that his job meets industry standards and has challenged me to prove otherwise. My position is that this job might qualify as a Yugo, but not as a [insert favorite brand of luxury car].

Any thoughts on how I can get an opinion on whether the sub's work a) meets general industry standards and b) whether this job is consistent with the larger quality of work characterizing our home? Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Justin

kiwirobfin · 06-12-2008, 09:37 AM

Photos mate photos

hoboal · 06-12-2008, 10:21 AM

Yes we need pic's, Post some good close ups of the seams and any other part of the job that you feel is questionable.

JC in No Va · 06-12-2008, 10:45 AM

Pictures attached as requested. The first two are of the bisected peninsula; the final one is of the sink.

Thanks,

JC

hoboal · 06-12-2008, 10:54 AM

Wow, I can tell ya right now, That members that fabricate and restorationist will have a field day with this install job. It might be installer standard (industry standards is questionable). A sure you, it not the NSRA standard by a long shot !!

JC in No Va · 06-12-2008, 11:05 AM

Thanks.

As you all review the pix, please let me know in as much detail a) what exactly was wrong about this job and b) what we can/should do to fix the problem. My inclination is to do this over, but I don't know whether this job is bad enough to merit that.

Regards,

Justin

Topshop · 06-12-2008, 11:43 AM

No doubt that the seam in the penninsula is wide, not parallel, and miscolored but I cannot see a height difference from these pictures.

The MIA states that Stone to stone joints are to be slightly arised 1/32" and consistant width of joint to be 1/16". The joint color (setting Material) is not realy specified only that the materials chosen should be reviewed with the purchaser.

Part of the problem you have is that you had no idea where the seams were going to be and often that is simply the fault of lack of communication. That is what happens when you buy the job from a contractor instead of directly from the fabricator. Now I would not have located the seams like this guy did but the seam locations usually depends on the job layout, the size of the slabs, and route being taken to get the stone into the home. We do not have enough information on this to make a determination here. We have no full kitchen pictures, no idea of the slab size, and no idea of the route needed to carry stone into the home. I do know that the volga blue stone you have is sometimes not available in a large slab size but usually at lease 8' long. We really need more info to help you here.

With that said - These seams can be hidden much better in the hands of a good restoration guy or a fabricator who really knows what he is doing. I am sure that you contractor is using the cheapest fabricator he can to make his profits higher. Yes, I am sure he is marking up the cost of the stone to you. Next time go directly to the fabricator - save money and keep the lines of communication more open. Your beef is with your contractor. Have him deal with the fabricator and earn his cut on your money.

Huligar · 06-12-2008, 11:53 AM

Justin, let me be the first to tell you, there is no real industry standers when it comes to fabricating and the standards for installation is a joke. With that been said, forget about replacing the tops, you have no clue what you will get next. Your best bet is to get a restoration guy to deal with all of those seams that you have.

From the images that you post, I do not see much of a challenge for any of the NSRA members, are any one that had any training in the art of seam repair.

If I was you I would hold them them to your standards not the so call industry standards.
You should always get what you pay for, and next time you pick the fabricator base on pass work.

cheesedog · 06-19-2008, 08:25 PM

unfortunately, if you were to really have it scrutinized by an expert witness for legal purposes, i believe they would find it to be acceptable by "industry standards". this does not mean that it cannot be better, but i honestly dont think you will be able to make anything happen. not to be a downer, but thats reality. now you have two issues; finding someone qualified to make it right, and paying for it.

the seams go where the fabricator feels like putting them, end of story. the way to get them where you want, is to have direct communication with the fabricator. the contractor is the second worst person to make those decisions, next to the interior designers.

the seam in the peninsula is most likely necessary, for transportation purpose like they said, or possibly just because that material is not available in slabs that big. also, think about how heavy that piece would be, it is possible they couldnt get it in the house like that.

"the seams are not invisible". seams are never invisible, untill they are filled carefully, ground flat and polished. this type of work is very expensive, can be done by only a handfull of professionals, and i would be impressed if it was included as a standard practice with the job.

with that said, yes it should have be done better, but like Topshop said, with lack of communication, you wont get what you want. this is the problem we are having in this industry, the fab shops arent stepping up and asking the clients what they want. our clients tell us where they want the seams, and untill they do, we dont cut anything. thats the way it should be, that way they know exactly what to expect. if the job permits, they get to walk out to the yard with a marker and draw a line on the slab where they want the seam. just a little extra effort will eliminate headaches for the homeowner and the fabricators. i dont think its fair you have to deal with this and i hope the contractor steps up and goes to bat for you.

JC in No Va · 06-20-2008, 05:25 PM

Update:

Had several granite people come in, and they found the quality of the job to be lacking in several areas (at one point there was a gap between the counter top and the wall big enough to stick my fingers through up to the second knuckle. There was also a misplaced seam on top of the cabinets -- I was told the seam should go between two cabinet boxes so each slab is supported. There was also inadequate finish work.

The sub never got back to us after a meeting to discuss what to do. Contractor is out for his 50% deposit, and if the sub comes back for the other 50%, we'll fight him (sometimes it helps to be a lawyer). Between the lack of communication, the poor quality of the initial job and the sub's failure to get back to us on a remediation plan, I think he faces an uphill battle.

The granite was ripped out today (except for two small pieces) and will be replaced on Monday by a reputable granite fabricator.

So the $5000 job will end up being a $7000 job, with the contractor paying all but $500.

Looking back on it all, the biggest lesson learned is the obvious one: communication is key. You need to know where the seams will go, etc. before the job is done, not after.

Thanks for your help.

JC